Comments on: The historic convergence of #OccupyWallStreet and the Commons started at the Making Worlds conference https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-historic-convergence-of-occupywallstreet-and-the-commons-started-at-the-making-worlds-conference/ Researching, documenting and promoting peer to peer practices Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.5.16 By: Michel Bauwens https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-historic-convergence-of-occupywallstreet-and-the-commons-started-at-the-making-worlds-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-490982 Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:34:18 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=22572#comment-490982 In reply to Susan Hawthorne.

No both genders are definitely active in creating digital commons, which I define as the creation of knowledge (including actionable knowledge with a direct impact on life) that is collective constructed and made universally available. Some areas are male-dominated, but with very strong presence of women (say the Arduino circuit board design community), but others have a majority of women.

]]>
By: Susan Hawthorne https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-historic-convergence-of-occupywallstreet-and-the-commons-started-at-the-making-worlds-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-490977 Mon, 27 Feb 2012 06:10:51 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=22572#comment-490977 Yes I am very active in the digital arena. I’m not sure what you mean by digital commons. If women are at the forefront here ten it’s possible women are c=active in the commons and men are active in the privatised zone (I am not meaning to be biologically determinist here, just responding to your statement). If that is so, guess who will still have1% and 99% respectively?

Can you say what you mean by the digital commons?

]]>
By: Michel Bauwens https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-historic-convergence-of-occupywallstreet-and-the-commons-started-at-the-making-worlds-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-490974 Mon, 27 Feb 2012 02:59:34 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=22572#comment-490974 In reply to Susan Hawthorne.

thanks Susan. Have you considered how digital commons, substantially and sometimes mostly driven by women, will play a role?

]]>
By: Susan Hawthorne https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-historic-convergence-of-occupywallstreet-and-the-commons-started-at-the-making-worlds-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-490972 Sun, 26 Feb 2012 03:08:10 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=22572#comment-490972 We agree about Margaret Thatcher, but they are few which was my point. We are talking history here not a possible world. Who knows, it might not be as you suggest. This is hypothetical. In real women’s lives, the 1% figure has not been shattered. I am in Australia and this continent has a long history (let’s say roughly 100,000 years) of commons: that is land that is based on ties of relationship and responsibility.

]]>
By: Michel Bauwens https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-historic-convergence-of-occupywallstreet-and-the-commons-started-at-the-making-worlds-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-490970 Sun, 26 Feb 2012 02:57:21 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=22572#comment-490970 In reply to Susan Hawthorne.

Thanks Susan, your remarks are appreciated but I’m sure it was not David’s intention to obscure the contributions of women and feminists to the defense and revival of the commons. David works very closely with Silke Helfrich, who has been very active in the alterglobalisation movement and WSF for years, and I’m sure she’s sensitive to that side of the history. Nevertheless, I heard her own judgment that something new is happening around the commons, and that it is moving from a peripheral concern, to being part of the core policy paradigm of the WSF, and at the very least, they are working on that in time for the Rio+20 events. This is possible because of all those that prepared the terrain and as you say, that history should not be forgotten. By the way, historical references would be very useful to update the p2p foundation wiki on that aspect (http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Commons). As for the privatisation of the commons by females, Margaret Thatcher comes to mind, I’m pretty sure that in a world where the class of capital would be more feminized, it would be they doing the privatisation.

]]>
By: Susan Hawthorne https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-historic-convergence-of-occupywallstreet-and-the-commons-started-at-the-making-worlds-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-490968 Sat, 25 Feb 2012 22:14:08 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=22572#comment-490968 I am in support of the OWS movement just as I have been a part of the Social Forums just as I have been a part of numerous social movements over many decades. What I am saying is that this is simply the latest iteration. As for commons there used to be a great deal more of it before it was privatised and corporatised. What I’m objecting to is the invisiblisation of this history. If I have misread you, my apologies. Unless one specifically makes those connections they will get lost in this era of lost histories. While you say that feminists are not the only social force around in terms of commons, I have to respond that thanks to women around the world some of the commons have been protected. If you actually look at who has privatised the commons, you’d be hard pressed to find women (the odd inherited political position excepted). Feminists do in fact make representation on behalf of women. Remember the UN stats: women own 1% of the world’s wealth: that is women are the model for the OWS slogan of we are the 99%. So let’s put it up front.

]]>
By: Michel Bauwens https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-historic-convergence-of-occupywallstreet-and-the-commons-started-at-the-making-worlds-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-490963 Sat, 25 Feb 2012 13:06:05 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=22572#comment-490963 In reply to Susan Hawthorne.

As far as I’m aware Susan, OWS is barely a year old … I would be surprised if any convergence could have happened before. Just for the record, I know for sure from conversations David has read at least Mies, Shiva, Barlow and Ariel Saleh, and his own involvement is at least two decades old) who indeed talked about the commons before the advent of ows … and you will also find multiple references to them in the p2p wiki, but it is undoubtedly time to look up the work of Susan Hawthorne about which I admit I was not aware, but would be very happy to learn about. While feminists have undoubtedly played a very important role in the re-emmergence of the commons, they are not the only social force around. The commons is not the property of any single social force. There is also a huge difference between the expansion of an idea, and its effective take-up by a mass social movement with more than local appeal, and as a central core of its political stance (we’re not there yet with ows, but the world social forum is pretty close) and the emergence of the digital commons also brings something new to the table. Let not history blind us to the strong re-emergence of the commons right now.

]]>
By: Susan Hawthorne https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-historic-convergence-of-occupywallstreet-and-the-commons-started-at-the-making-worlds-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-490962 Sat, 25 Feb 2012 05:27:56 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=22572#comment-490962 Where have you guys been for the last 20 years? If you think these connections happened just now because you were there, give us a break. Feminists have been writing about this for decades. But perhaps you weren’t listening. Put yourselves on a feminist read up fast list. Try Maria Mies, Vandana Shiva, Maude Barlow, Diane Bell, Farida Akhter, Ariel Salleh, Susan Hawthorne and many many others.

]]>