Comments on: The Commons as Property https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-commons-as-property/2016/06/13 Researching, documenting and promoting peer to peer practices Thu, 30 Jun 2016 09:29:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.5.15 By: Michel Bauwens https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-commons-as-property/2016/06/13/comment-page-1#comment-1577047 Sat, 18 Jun 2016 16:42:45 +0000 https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=56988#comment-1577047 thanks for these precisions Michael!

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By: Michael Lewis https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-commons-as-property/2016/06/13/comment-page-1#comment-1577025 Thu, 16 Jun 2016 01:32:46 +0000 https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=56988#comment-1577025 In home ownership schemes based on community land trust tenure, people own the house. Same with workspace or commercial properties – they can be owned. However, the lease has covenants built into it the restrict resale. There are many formulas but what all of them ensure is that the earned equity can be fully withdrawn on exit. Most of them will share a bit of the market rise but only to the level to ensure the affordability is secured in perpetuity.

The problem with co-housing from an affordability point of view is they do not separate the land tenure from the house. Therefore there is no way to protect affordability. To participate in such ‘commons’ in Vancouver is expensive. On the north shore a small co-housing condo with only one bedroom goes for over $500,000.

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By: Michel Bauwens https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-commons-as-property/2016/06/13/comment-page-1#comment-1577023 Wed, 15 Jun 2016 23:05:35 +0000 https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=56988#comment-1577023 Glad you like it , David (de Ugarte)

Let me first respond to Roberth. I agree with you, I’m advocated for commons property, i.e. terra comunes, not terra nullius, as the Romans would say. For example, how did we get a breakthrough for the digital commons such as free software and open design … NOT by denying property, or just continuing with public domain production, but by hacking contract law to create the General Public Licenses and other free and open licenses. It is this working with property, that allowed us to create protected common property.

To Michael Lewis: I fully agree that there have to be multiple modalities, including un-alienable land commons that cannot be privatized. In Germany there is this mittglieder common housing, which I believe allows people to leave and get their investment back; this is what I mean. My concern is that is everything is unalienable, such as in CLT’s, then individuals have no recourse against the collective, and can’t leave the collective. Thus, in that context, specific forms of collective property which allow people to retire and invest their ‘contribution’ to another commons, would insure that freedom of choice for individuals.

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By: Michael Lewis https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-commons-as-property/2016/06/13/comment-page-1#comment-1577014 Tue, 14 Jun 2016 03:37:52 +0000 https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=56988#comment-1577014 I do not understand your argument Michel. You argue that defined rights are important for protecting the commons. You then argue that the individual should have the right to withdraw ‘his or her’ property from the commons. I presume thus you are not really talking about commons at all but a form of relational sharing of land. Perhaps this is a type of commons, I am not sure. I see it more as a community building strategy (think back yard sharing for food growing) but it does not address the underlying notion of balance you seemed concerned with, though I am not at all sure of what you kind of balance you are trying to get at.

From my perspective legally robust land ownership by the commons a is vital to where the real balance needs to be achieved, that is, removing the means by which private ownership of land pockets the unearned income that comes from the investment of the community (schools, transit, parks etc). This unearned increment concentrates private gain and excludes community benefit being recognized. Moreover it is a major contributor to wealth concentration and poverty creation, all in the name of the sanctity of private property and the freedom of the individual. Meanwhile in a community like where I live in B.C. the poor go homeless and the middle class can hardly make ends meet because of the appropriation of value through private property rights. My worry is the vagueness of your argument and its assumption of individuals maintaining land ownership that can be contributed and withdrawn from whatever kind of commons you are imagining can unintentionally feed this mentality, one which I know is counter to your values and intent.

Here is my view in a nutshell. We must maximize the reclamation of land out of the private property market and place in a commons which is democratically governed by non-profit stakeholders to achieve social, ecological and economic objectives, for example affordable housing, workspace, access to land from renewable energy and food production. The buildings can be private but they must lease the land, with strict covenants embedded in the terms of the lease to ensure community benefits are realized and the ‘market return’ to, for instance, a home owner, is restricted in a way that is fair but insists on ensuring affordability in perpetuity. In this way we can link commons to a blended ownership model that works for everybody. As you know there are many models that are amply demonstrating the value and efficacy of this approach – conservation easements, community land trust, cooperative land banks etc.

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By: Seamus https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-commons-as-property/2016/06/13/comment-page-1#comment-1577008 Mon, 13 Jun 2016 15:51:50 +0000 https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=56988#comment-1577008 I assume the opt out relates only to physical property and not immaterial property, which once copied or changed can hardly be put back out into normal proprietary channels without some kind of legal action, or massively complex interactions, which would hinder the whole commons system.

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By: David de Ugarte https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-commons-as-property/2016/06/13/comment-page-1#comment-1577006 Mon, 13 Jun 2016 11:40:26 +0000 https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=56988#comment-1577006 Bravo Michel!! This is a very important and valuable post. Thanks for writing it.

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By: Roberth https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-commons-as-property/2016/06/13/comment-page-1#comment-1577004 Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:32:39 +0000 https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=56988#comment-1577004 I would like to ask, what about a state-less property and non-greedy property system?, I agree that perhaps, property as a protection for individual rights to own things like clothes, food or shelter could be useful, in order to let the people survive, but other things as tools or spaces sucha as farms, sports fields, could be declared as common goods by the people who wants them to be free-of-use, stablishing the rights and duties to assure people a well use of them. Am I right, wrong, what do you think?

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