Jean Lievens’s introduction:
On May 3, Jonathan Clyne, Lena Hanno, Alex Dirmeier and Jean Lievens had a discussion with Michel Bauwens on peer-to-peer and Marxism. The discussion took place in the lobby of the Palace Hotel in Berlin. Here’s a slightly edited transcript of the discussion. The recording was reasonably good, but our voices were sometimes unintelligible because there were other guests talking in the lobby and there was also a piano playing (from the theme song from Titanic to What a Wonderful World, all very appropriate).
So my apologies if I misinterpreted some of the interventions, because sometimes I had to guess what has actually been said (words between parentheses are added). If that was the case, please react so I can change it. I hope this debate will continue.
Read the debate here.
Read the
Tnx for transcribing the conversation! It’s quite interesting debate, however, it lost track in the second part. Basically Michel argues in the frame of the five step model (where the proto-mode is the germ from). However, what is really an open question to me, is the new quality of commons-based peer production. If Michel subordinates nearly everything under the new type of production, which is not an evil capitalist type of firm, then I can understand the reservations of the debate partners. On the other hand, what they do not understand is the fact, that in a transition period, the new type of production must serve the old logics, namely reducing the costs.
The discussion is similar to the so-called working-class subject. For the P2P ideologists are the small internet companies,some individual contractors the same as for the old Marxists the worker-class subject.
It is an illusion! In reality it is the opposite of the Marxian illusion. Small structures,little companies; it is the dream of all traditional and new
small petty bourgeois.The party of this new P2P subject is not a leftist party,it is the PirateParty.
On the other hand you have big plutocratic companies.
At the moment you can watch that the banking comporations and the Eurabia-Elites are deciding the policy in Europe and world wide.Oligarchy is becoming more and more powerful.
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But even the P2P ideology could succeed(what isn’t a reality):The thinking of an allmend is nothing new and it is only a kind of fascism(and only as a kind of fascism possible).Beside the cultural background is central and decides the possiblity of development.So this culture would be enforced like all other cultural praxis were enforced.