Comments on: P2P PIONEERS vs. PROTO-CAPITALISM: MAGHRIBIS & GENOESE TRADERS https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/p2p-pioneers-vs-proto-capitalism-maghribis-genoese-traders/2009/08/07 Researching, documenting and promoting peer to peer practices Mon, 13 Oct 2014 13:06:43 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.5.15 By: Poor Richard https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/p2p-pioneers-vs-proto-capitalism-maghribis-genoese-traders/2009/08/07/comment-page-1#comment-492165 Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:18:50 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=4344#comment-492165 @Iggy: “There will be a forthcoming post on that, for which I will definitively use Lanier´s essay.”

I look forward to that with great interest.

@Dante-Gabryell Monson: “It seems to me that the comparison between the collectivist Maghribis and current distributed p2p networks does not totally match.”

Modern p2p relations are more varied and complex than Maghribi society, but the latter might represent a pattern that a p2p subculture could devolve into. There may already be examples.

PR

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By: Iggy https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/p2p-pioneers-vs-proto-capitalism-maghribis-genoese-traders/2009/08/07/comment-page-1#comment-416646 Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:45:47 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=4344#comment-416646 I do in fact agree. I see however these maghribis traders a very particular kind of collectivism where there is exclusivness outside the collective and “cooperative individualism” inside of it.
I see there are common features between the and distributed p2p networks being still a different thing, those similarities is what I attempted to raise by in order to see what makes it different and work towards a more accurate definition of what is p2p: what makes it essentially different beyond its characteristics.
There will be a forthcoming post on that, for which I will definitively use Lanier´s essay. Thanks for the links

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By: Dante-Gabryell Monson https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/p2p-pioneers-vs-proto-capitalism-maghribis-genoese-traders/2009/08/07/comment-page-1#comment-416284 Sat, 08 Aug 2009 00:14:58 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=4344#comment-416284 It seems to me that the comparison between the collectivist Maghribis and current distributed p2p networks does not totally match.

My first feeling is that distributed p2p networks are not collectivist, but can include certain advantages seen in collectivism while actually being “cooperative individualists”, based on “equipotentiality”

http://p2pfoundation.net/Equipotentiality

Some quotes from the following p2p blog post :

http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/jaron-laniers-rant-against-online-collectivism-and-its-relational-alternative/2006/05/31

“this turn to the collective that the emergence of peer to peer represent does not in any way present a loss of individuality, even of individualism. Rather it ‘transcends and includes’ individualism and collectivism in a new unity, which I would like to call ‘cooperative individualism’. The cooperativity is not necessarily intentional (i.e. the result of conscious altruism), but constitutive of our being, and the best applications of P2P, are based on this idea.”

“The individual who joins a P2P project, puts his being, unadulterated, in the service of the construction of a common resource. Implicit is not just a concern for the narrow group, not just intersubjective relations, but the whole social field surrounding it.

An important aspect is the issue of value, both the value in the sense of what is exchanged on a market, and the value in the sense of ethical meaningfulness, i.e. what we value. Peer to peer produces for use value, not exchange value. The wider community therefore derives ‘use value’ from this common form of production. Participants themselves derive value in two different ways: first, the uptake or not of the ‘production’ is a sign of the relative value of the product in its wider field of related offerings. Participants will partake in the general recognition/valuation of the project in the wider society. Second, within, a similar form of recognition will operate according to the contribution of participants. The process is often measured or aided by social accounting tools specifically designed to that effect, and individual recognition of effort is always a key element of open source projects. Peer to peer is therefore also a process of social recognition and valuation, that replaces or complements money as a token of social recognition.”

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By: Blogs Gazette - 33th Edition | https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/p2p-pioneers-vs-proto-capitalism-maghribis-genoese-traders/2009/08/07/comment-page-1#comment-416259 Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:49:29 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=4344#comment-416259 […] for anyone living in an area where the town hall is stony-broke. In a way it’s nothing new. MunicP2P PIONEERS vs. PROTO-CAPITALISM: MAGHRIBIS & GENOESE TRADERSblog.p2pfoundation.net says: A re-post from the blog Golpe de e-Estado : There is a tendency to […]

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