Comments on: Movement of the Day: the new cybernetic left https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/movement-of-the-day-the-new-cybernetic-left/2013/10/02 Researching, documenting and promoting peer to peer practices Thu, 03 Oct 2013 15:21:34 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.5.15 By: Bob Haugen https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/movement-of-the-day-the-new-cybernetic-left/2013/10/02/comment-page-1#comment-552501 Thu, 03 Oct 2013 15:21:34 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=33149#comment-552501 After reading and thinking about the essay, I think Nick Dyer-Whiteford and most of the people he quotes are missing something important.

He is correct that the computing capabilities of (for example) Google and the logistical practices of (for example) Walmart are sufficient to the task of planning huge economies.

But huge plans, however constructed, become inaccurate after maybe the second real event, and then get more inaccurate all the time.

Plans are “push” systems.

In the 1990’s, the Toyota Production System (mentioned previously in the P2P Foundation blog) developed “pull” systems, that worked off P2P signals that could be morphed into stigmergy if you cross your eyes a bit.

And most commercial supply chains now try to work off point of consumption events.

So you could imagine pull signals from points of need from the commons, traveling through value networks.

And then you also need feedback and feed forward mechanisms.

So, while I do not believe that the world will be transformed by better software, it would be possible to do a lot better than either the Red Plenty systems or the current corporate systems.

]]> By: Apostolis xekoukoulotakis https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/movement-of-the-day-the-new-cybernetic-left/2013/10/02/comment-page-1#comment-552452 Thu, 03 Oct 2013 05:57:28 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=33149#comment-552452 There is no such thing as an objective unit of value.
One hour of teaching is not the same as one hour of planting.
It is the forces of the market that give the ratio between the 2 hours of work,
and thus introduce an abstract labor unit of time.

]]> By: Bob Haugen https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/movement-of-the-day-the-new-cybernetic-left/2013/10/02/comment-page-1#comment-552390 Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:15:25 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=33149#comment-552390 1. What Jim Fearnley said.

2. But in either vision (the New Socialist or the utopian communist), the operative question is how to get from here to there? And of course along the way, “there” will change.

We need both strategy and tactics for a feasible transformation.

Search also for the “adjacent possible”.

And also for Enrique Dussell, who does not offer an actual solution but some pregnant ideas.

And then maybe Michel will arrive at an answer in Ecuador?

]]> By: Jim Fearnley https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/movement-of-the-day-the-new-cybernetic-left/2013/10/02/comment-page-1#comment-552371 Wed, 02 Oct 2013 08:51:42 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=33149#comment-552371 But it appears that, although they cannot be accumulated into an asset-like surplus, labour certificates do not challenge the basic premise of the capitalist exchange economy, namely, that labour value is defined as a universal measure, and its representation [in this case, certificates rather than money] can be used to exchange for commodities ‘containing’ a commensurate value. This seems far from the unimpeachable first principle of “from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs”, which acknowledges the differential between the abilities of different individuals and the possible ‘shortfall’ between their capabilities and needs, and also the individual nature of any given individual’s ‘constellation’ of needs as expressed by the use values necessary to them to participate fully in the social collective.

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