Comments on: Dmytri Kleiner’s critique of Yochai Benkler https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/dmytri-kleiners-critique-of-yochai-benkler/2006/10/09 Researching, documenting and promoting peer to peer practices Mon, 08 Sep 2014 08:38:23 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.5.15 By: Michel Bauwens https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/dmytri-kleiners-critique-of-yochai-benkler/2006/10/09/comment-page-1#comment-5425 Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:37:52 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=494#comment-5425 Hi Sam:

perhaps, we have some differences of semantics. I’m not sure there is such a thing as capitalist markets, I’d rather call them anti-markets. First, 1) because all sectors have private monopolies; 2) because these could not exist without extensive corporate welfare policies; 3) because it treats nature as an externality and 4) because it is based on the historical and continuing expropriation of the real producers to the benefit of centralized propietors. So together with Fernand Braudel, Manuel de Landa, and Kevin Carson, I will tend to call them anti-markets. Point 3 is now the most serious, since our very biosphere is under threat.

So we need reforms that avoid permanent accumulation and externalisation, i.e. we need true costing. Private companies are not wrong, but the system as a whole, which optimizes one subsystem at the expense of the whole is. Now, semantics aside, concepts like natural capitalism or living companies, or ‘real producer-based free markets’ .. are fine with me.

Of course, we have to work within the existing framework and start the change from where we are now.

]]>
By: Sam Rose https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/dmytri-kleiners-critique-of-yochai-benkler/2006/10/09/comment-page-1#comment-5274 Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:58:10 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=494#comment-5274 I think that capitalist markets can co-exist with non-capitalist markets in ways that don’t have the capitalist market crowding out all other markets. I think that once people have a way to deal with trust metrics, and with intangible value metrics, and network value metrics, that financial bottom lines will take their place among many other bottom lines, instead of being the most important.

This is part of the “pull” economy models. “Pull” models can handle hybrid networks of companies and peer-producers.

I see many simultaneous arrangements emerging.

As you mention:

“expansion in the physical sphere is dependent on 3 factors:

1) the possibility of an abundance or a distribution of resources (this is already the case for computing resources)

2) the possibility of separating immaterial design processes from physical production; in such cases, the first process can be peer-produced; and the second can be much more distributed through P2P exchanges

3) the interlinking of physical, logical (licences), and digital resources, so that we can create physical commons of public goods that are protected from abuse (the tragedy of the commons).”

Private companies will very likely emerge emerge to try and capitalize off of enthusiams that emerge around Open Design and online peer production of designs intended for physical production. Already, we see this in the rapid prototyping/personal fabrication spheres with businesses like http://emachineshop.com/ and suppliers like https://www.barebonespcb.com/!BB1.asp, and http://www.makezine.com/ This is a hobbyist area now mostly, but will increasingly move into smaller and larger business realms.

Plus, there are many exchanges that take place in networks, such as barters of knowledge and time, that can be measured and optimized in a p2p way to create new barter economies that inform and add value. People can voluntarily offer this data about themselves, and systems can be set up to monitor individual impact, and network value. These networks can consist of groups of peer producers, and organizations that partner with them. They can all be organized around a core commons of peer produced designs that are then built upon and produced to meet local and cutomized demands. These “pull” model networks are based primarily around trust/trusted relationships.

]]>