Comments on: Basic Income vs. Job Guarantee

By: Ozgur Zeren

Fri, 16 Dec 2016 14:24:47 +0000

Indeed, UBI is a double-edged sword.

On one hand, it can indeed alleviate numerous problems regarding sustenance and insecurity in current capitalist society and provide the people a means to fund themselves while pursuing their passions, innovating, researching, even organizing to change the society…

On the other hand it can easily neutralize the momentum that exists against the existing capitalist system which could bring meaningful change by satisfying basic necessities.

So its complicated…

People today have to think about their survival, how to pay bills next month, their children, their future, overworked, tired, without means. This hampers social movements, community organization, political initiatives to no end:

Protest all you want, do sit-ins, engage in activism – the establishment is aware that you cannot carry the momentum a few months, because citizens who took time off of their work or traveled far from their home cannot keep going for long. Eventually, responsibilities and financial reality will force them to go back to their home, their jobs and assume the routine again. Only ones who would be able to sustain any kind of initiative longer would be people who have means to do so, or students – and even then only to a certain degree. Moreover, people cannot even remain informed – there remains little incentive, even little energy to even read what’s happening in the world after 8-10~ hours of work in an office environment. Even being informed requires financial well being and security.

UBI would instantly fix these problems by securing sustenance and financing people.

But then, the initiative for people to engage in activism to change the economy and society into a more democratic, participatory one diminishes greatly.

Why should a young person who wants to be a famous professional gamer stop practicing and engage in activism or organization? Now that his/her financial situation is secure? Or, why should a musician who wants to make a big break engage in politics? Now he doesn’t even need to work a ~12 hour part time job to put food on his table…

In such an environment, the only people who are engaged in organizing, activism, politics could end up being people who are philosophically, ideologically or humanely motivated…

………

Then again it complicates even more – with UBI, now hundreds of millions of people become instant capital-holders. These people instantly become investors who can fund initiatives and projects. Especially coupled with ascendant concepts like Crowdfunding, this opens up countless possibilities.

Now hundreds of thousands of people would be able to fund research projects by forking our $5-10 monthly by funding researchers who don’t want to be beholden to private interests, financiers or government. Ambitious projects like Mars project could be funded not by luckily having people like Elon Musk, ready to risk their entire wealth to try for something far-fetched, but instead by millions of people who would not need to take existential risks with their life of their finances.

………

UBI could work if people who want to change the world are prepared when it comes. Ie, people like us. If we develop methodology to counter its ills and make use of its benefits, and if we are prepared to raise precise and sufficient awareness to encourage and empower people to act with their newly found freedom instead of falling into passivity, UBI can enable popular change in a way that was not possible before.

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By: Simon Grant

Thu, 15 Dec 2016 12:35:21 +0000

Do UBI and JG have to be mutually exclusive? As can be seen even from the few comments above, both have different supporters, and I would say both camps have good reasons to support the one they do. Maybe we can have both, maybe like this…

Everyone has a UBI. It’s relatively low, but enough to survive, and to make crime unnecessary for survival. Then, for all who want a job, there is also a guaranteed job. It doesn’t have to be paid much, because it just has to bridge the gap between UBI and what people now talk about as a “living wage”. I can imagine many advantages for having both together, rather than just one or just the other.

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By: Josh Davis

Sun, 04 Sep 2016 17:55:35 +0000

…and here’s my suggestion for a truly cooperative retirement plan:

http://www.geo.coop/blog/envisioning-cooperative-retirement

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By: Josh Davis

Sun, 04 Sep 2016 15:54:26 +0000

In reply to Stacco Troncoso.

Here’s my next blog entry. It might not have as wide an appeal, as it’s specifically about American 401(k) retirement plans:

http://www.geo.coop/blog/some-401k-caveats

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By: Stacco Troncoso

Sun, 04 Sep 2016 08:50:42 +0000

Thanks Josh, and please ping us when you publish the follow-up so we can republish.

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By: Josh Davis

Thu, 01 Sep 2016 17:02:25 +0000

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I’m aware of the gap in any JG proposal for people who are unable to work. The short answer is we need to keep our other safety net programs in place (and strengthen them) for people who just can not work. The longer answer is that we need to re-think what valuable work actually is. I know a lot of people on disability who would love to do what they can to help others, especially if it paid the bills as well.

As for the untested nature of the proposal, I disagree. The federal works programs of the 30s and 40s are proof that we can, and have, provided employment for millions and created real value for everyone. And the WPA included jobs for artists and writers as well. Again, I think most of the issues could be addressed with a little creativity.

Thanks again for reading, and thanks to Stacco for cross-posting.

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By: Jerry Briardy

Sat, 27 Aug 2016 08:36:41 +0000

I’d personally prefer a Universal Basic Income, because I’m an artist and have been for 35 years. It is difficult at best to make a living in the arts, mainly because so much time is wasted working a 2nd job to pay the bills. This proposal simply transfers the work to the public sector rather than private. I’d be more than happy to decorate public spaces, libraries, schools, parks etc. if possible. Getting rich certainly is not the issue. Creating art is.

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By: Aidan

Sat, 27 Aug 2016 03:18:51 +0000

I’d support this idea but I’m curious how those incapable of work would be provided for within such a system? Whether their incapacity was temporary or permanent would also complicate things.

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By: Mike Riddell

Fri, 26 Aug 2016 06:38:29 +0000

I’m quite persuaded by the arguments here but believe such a programme will take years to implement simply because the systems, processes and business model are still not in place to make such an investment possible. Nor is the evidence there either.

Having said that, the new and emerging forms of community currency (think locally issued IOUs) would be an alternative way to build community and unlock the stored value that is untapped within communities of place.

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