Comments on: Anthony judges the dark side of peer to peer (Reactions to P2P Video 1) https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/anthony-judges-the-dark-side-of-peer-to-peer-reactions-to-p2p-video-1/2007/08/21 Researching, documenting and promoting peer to peer practices Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:40:15 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.5.15 By: Responding to Tony Judge on the dark side of peer to peer » P2P Foundation https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/anthony-judges-the-dark-side-of-peer-to-peer-reactions-to-p2p-video-1/2007/08/21/comment-page-1#comment-109977 Sun, 09 Sep 2007 06:22:42 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/anthony-judges-the-dark-side-of-peer-to-peer-reactions-to-p2p-video-1/2007/08/21#comment-109977 […] Some time ago, we published some critical remarks by Anthony Judge , about the dark side of peer to peer. […]

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By: Tim Gartside https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/anthony-judges-the-dark-side-of-peer-to-peer-reactions-to-p2p-video-1/2007/08/21/comment-page-1#comment-106459 Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:07:39 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/anthony-judges-the-dark-side-of-peer-to-peer-reactions-to-p2p-video-1/2007/08/21#comment-106459 Dear Tony,

my initial comments were in response to the video itself. I presume Michel has posted your comments to his blog to seek to provoke responses here. And thus, here are some comments on a few of your points:

TENSEGRITY

“My original interest in tensegrity was that it explicity designed in soft and hard relationships”.

Fuller’s tensegrity princple ties in well with Jacob Moreno’s sociometric principles, one of which is that we are attracted to, ambivalent towards, or repelled from another person at a particular time on a particular criterion. I am sufficiently attracted towards responding to you on this sunny Brisbane Sunday afternoon, that I am actually doing it. I am conducting a series of research sessions (Polyhedral Parlours) gathering sociometric data from groups (attractive, ambivalence and repulsion of group members in relation to other group members). Once the data is gathered (a stimulating exercise in and of itself) the groups are building polyhedral models of that data (using foam balls and timber struts). We are then saying if we were seeking to build the most effective polyhedral model of this group (incorporating the ‘soft bits and the hard bits’in a way that will promote circulation of energy in the group) what form would it take. The research is in its early days.

FINANCIAL

“..peculiar relationships to money which prevent anyone earning a living from it, other than by parasiting on it”

I’m not entirely sure what “it” is in this context. Broadly speaking, P2P structures? Again writing from my own experience we’re working on a model in Open Sphere where a surplus generated, for example, from conducting a workshop or seminar can be distributed to people who have contributed to the IP of Open Sphere. Nothing more than an idea at this stage. If the idea were to develop fully and migrate from the immaterial to material realm, then potentially Michel and yourself could be recipients of such a dividend.

PP2 – NO CONSTRAINTS

The way I imagine it is that any particular structure is designed with a set of practices or proctols. There is a delicate interplay between the prospect of progress through the structure being sufficient to attract the neccessary participants and the caution or anxiety some participants might experience at the prospect of taking part. Thus entry is voluntary, but having entered one is then subject to a set of disciplines. Depending on how things are constructed it may not be straigthforward to click off capriciously (“walking away anytime”). Following on from the comments about Open Sphere structures above – one of the important objectives is that we are seeking to create structures that are designed to tolerate higher levels of antipathy or repulsion, and to distribute and resolve those forces through the structure.

ASKING A LOT

It seems a little stiff to suggest (mabye you are doing this, maybe you are not) that because P2P can not immediately point to a killer application or offer a structure to solve the Middle East situation that the model or approach is pollyanna-ish (“everything is lovely in the garden”)!

Surely we are looking for practical demonstrations where P2P principles have been consciously applied, vis a vis derived from existing structures? When we can point to several different situations and say “Yes, that seems to be working pretty well”, then, and only then, can we say all the necessary dimensions seems to be present.

Until then we all vote with our own energy and focus. My belief is that between Moreno, Fuller, Judge and Bauwens all the necessary ingredients are there to foster and contribute to a gentle micro-revolution in the world of corporations.

All the best,

Tim G

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By: Michel Bauwens https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/anthony-judges-the-dark-side-of-peer-to-peer-reactions-to-p2p-video-1/2007/08/21/comment-page-1#comment-105973 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 06:41:08 +0000 http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/anthony-judges-the-dark-side-of-peer-to-peer-reactions-to-p2p-video-1/2007/08/21#comment-105973 zones within existing organisations; and organisations learning to alternate between the formal/vertical structure and the open sphere/horizontal structure. The video is just under one hour."]]> Comment posted with permission from Tim Gartside:

“I found myself watching it last evening with great interest. The material is certainly full of life the second time around (or I found it so). Indeed, I may well line up for a third pass! There is so much content floating around nowadays, though I give this material a fulsome recommendation in terms of its relevance to the evolution of organisations. Michel has made a keen synthesis of a wide range of social trends (including technology). Much of his practical commentary is highly pertinent to the development of Open Sphere which is concerned with the development of ‘peer to peer’ zones within existing organisations; and organisations learning to alternate between the formal/vertical structure and the open sphere/horizontal structure. The video is just under one hour.”

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